1. bw on June 12, 2006 4:25 PM writes...

Having a business model that relies on receiving a check from google seems a little too 90s to me. I wonder how long the party will last this time.

2. relaxedguy on June 12, 2006 5:12 PM writes...

Is this comment in any way a Fox and grapes story? The delivery mechanisms, players and technology may change but placing relevant content/offers in front of people in a useful context will never, ever go out of vogue.

3. Markus on June 12, 2006 5:55 PM writes...

I find it amusing that no matter what I do people seem to think I am a fool, and yet my site keeps getting bigger.

What I keep saying is that Plentyoffish runs on a handful of servers everyone else needs hundreds of servers, not just one big dating sites but all the major dating sites. Many other dating sites have tried to stay free and they have all crashed and burned because the costs where so huge. Webdate.com being the latest one.

A few years ago I created a algorithm that found sequences of primes several thousand times faster then the other fastest known algorithm. http://groups.google.com/group/sci.math/browse_thread/thread/190ff09a94eedab/be0b092b2ebfb502?lnk=st&q=22+primes+in+progression&rnum=1#be0b092b2ebfb502 People used hundreds of computers and super computers to find the last record over the course of 5 years. I found it on a single machine after a few days.

Plentyoffish is built the same way, it requires a fraction of the infrastructure everyone else has, and its built on technology that can't be cloned and is 20-80 times faster then what every other dating site and social network has.

4. Jon Sterling on June 12, 2006 6:00 PM writes...

This is one category that I never would have thought that adsense would be profitable. This has totally bent my thinking and now have to get new set of glasses to see more clearly into the future. :)

The traffic must be amazing for a site to reach this level with they payouts on the keywords for dating and singles.

5. bw on June 12, 2006 6:26 PM writes...

Jon,

Markus is considered a premium publisher and therefore is allowed to use the google_kw_type and google_kw variables. Using these variables one can set their own keywords and in Markus's case to ones with higher payouts. Markus's site also takes into consideration members' profile information when setting keywords.

6. Bill Broadbent on June 13, 2006 8:37 AM writes...

Markus - you continue to amaze me. I am just waiting for Sam to comment. You there Sam?

Bill

7. Sam Moorcroft, ChristianCafe.com on June 13, 2006 9:05 AM writes...

Yes, I am here - well, in Brazil, actually, visiting with my wife's family. I can work pretty much the same here as I can sitting in my office in Toronto - the Internet is great, eh?:-)

Well, I have to hand it to you Marcus, you have proven me wrong! I publicly stand corrected!

Even if that cheque was for 1 year (heck, even 2) that's some decent payola.

Good for you - hope you make more. Thanks for sharing with us all how you did it.

8. Sam Moorcroft, ChristianCafe.com on June 13, 2006 9:43 AM writes...

He Marcus, I noticed that Google pays you in Cdn$, not US$. Why would you do it that way? I am sure you would get a much better deal on the exchange if you traded the money yourself from US$ to Cdn$ rather than letting them do it for you.

This would especially be true for a cheque of that magnitude. You would get a top rate from any Cdn bank. The difference in the rate would likely be in the multiple thousands, if not over $10K, compared to what Google is getting you (and keeping the difference for themselves, likely).

9. Markus on June 13, 2006 12:15 PM writes...

Banks suck, a merchant exchange would only take .1% unlike the banks 1%. Google gives rates that are better then even the merchant exchange.

The market is getting scary, Myspace is now averaging 15 million unique logins a day and 240,000 signups a day. I would estimate the entire US dating market is only doing 1.2 to 1.6 million unique logins a day. I've talked to some of the general dating sites and i've just been hearing stories of industry wide decline. Just take a look at alexa charts for the big players, most are heading south. I estimate 20-30% of my users have a myspace account, and maybe 15-24% of users on paid dating sites do. Social networking is engulfing dating sites faster then sites like americansingles can reinvent themselves.

10. James J. on June 13, 2006 2:40 PM writes...

Are people over 25 really seriously using myspace for dating? I have always seen the current crop of social networking sites as appealing to mainly the 25 and under crowed. Is it really a bad thing that social networking sites are engulfing the young more casual daters forcing paid sites to focus on the more serious? In the long run...

11. relaxedguy on June 13, 2006 5:47 PM writes...

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to force companies to improve their site with enhanced services, better customer support and a safer environment. We always knew that free social networking sites were going to ursurp a certain portion of the dating marketing. Match saw the writing on the wall years ago when they had their ill-fated social network feature, which died due to being to early and underexposed.

I know people in their early 30's that have dated others on Myspace, I haven't and concrete evidence about the age range of daters though.

12. Fernando Ardenghi on June 13, 2006 7:26 PM writes...

David Evans wrote: "I'm sure this is going to heat up in the comments section, interested to hear your thoughts on POF and Adsense."

PlentyOfFish.com == Congrats, Great & Successful cheap channel for deliver ADS!!! == Internet Ads Industry
Technically speaking, PlentyofFish.com makes money off the ads upselling to other sites. It has all free users (the daters) and some paying clients (the advertisers)!
It is not really within the Online Dating Industry. It drains money from the Internet Ads Industry and not from daters/subscribers: Online Dating Industry

----------------------------------------------------------
Dating Industry a part of SINGLES INDUSTRY SERVICES
category: Society / Relationships / Dating / Personals

Personals Industry: Dating + Social Networking + Business Networking
Dating Industry: Off Line Chains (U.S./Canada market USD600 million) + On Line Sites (U.S./Canada market USD600 million) : (whole U.S./Canada Dating Industry market USD1,200 million)

How big is the Online Dating Market? United States/Canada USD600million (English), then Europe USD600million? (different languages), Asia USD500Million?, Australia and New Zealand USD150million?(English) and Latin America USD100million?(mostly Spanish) A global market as big as USD1,950million???

Markus Frind wrote: "I would estimate the entire US dating market is only doing 1.2 to 1.6 million unique logins a day. I've talked to some of the general dating sites and i've just been hearing stories of industry wide decline."

The U.S. market opportunity remains enormous. (page 6)
http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/11/111999/presentations/IAC_Personals.pdf
or
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=111999&p=irol-EventDetails&EventId=804120
(Select Personals)
According to Census 2000 figures, there are more than 86 million persons singles at the U.S. See also the article "Singles at a Glance - Single But Not Alone" at
http://www.one2onemag.com/new/singles_market_profile.asp

There are more than 900 "Online Dating & Social Networking Sites" at the United States and Canada, but top 10 Online Dating sites have 80%/85% of actual market (estimated). If you add net paid subscribers of all U.S. dating sites, perhaps the total is less than 10 million!!! There are more than 76 million waiting for quality at affordable cost!

Market Segmentation: fun - serious dating duality.

Fun Online Dating Industry in a SECOND BIG BUBBLE, that will explode soon.
This part of the Industry will merge with Social Networking Sites.
* mainly for 13-25 years old persons (teenagers).

Some problems appeared in many sites:
* Many are NOT profitable now and will never be.
* Many are full of fake profiles, invented profiles to attract users and then try to convert in clients. Databases are full of rubbish, ads, persons that tell lies or not exist, persons that use retouched or fake photos, etc. (low reliability)
All these make the average conversion rate from users to clients to decrease fast. The strategy to give free memberships to have a good amount of users and then try to convert them in clients will not work any more, because they will remain as users for ever and ever. (a vicious circle)
Nothing is real free!!! When a person posts his/her profile to a "free Online Dating Site" or when he/she searches for compatible real persons, he/she is spending time. TIME that he/she is paying with his/her LIFE.
Time spent: suppose USD5.00/hour x 45 hours (1/2 hour x 3 months) == USD 225.00, USD 75/month!!! It is worth than any dating site's fee!!!!

Serious Online Dating Industry

My bet about future trends
The Flight to Quality: QUALITY like actual Off Line Chains.
* mainly for 26-and more years old persons. Clients will pay for quality contacts (compatible real persons) and to avoid being hurt in their feelings by other persons.

The Serious Online Dating Industry urgently needs GREAT INNOVATIONS, but .... they will definitively come from new discoveries on Theories of Romantic Relationships Development: if "only high level on personality similarity between mates / couples could be the core of relationship stability and satisfaction == Dyadic Success."

Nate Elliot said: "I think there is an opportunity right now for some companies to come in and undercut the leaders."
I strongly agree!!! New quality online dating sites offering more power_calculation and better personality_matching_methods will have a great opportunity to World Wide succeed!

Kindest Regards,
Fernando Ardenghi.
Buenos Aires.
Argentina.
ardenghifer@gmail.com
http://profile.typekey.com/ardenghifer/

13. Neal on June 13, 2006 8:25 PM writes...

Speaking as a 31 year old, I know plenty of people my age who use MySpace though they’ve primarily the people a few years younger than me. I don’t know any older than me using it. To me it represents a colossal waist of time. An evening sifting through excess personal expression about silly things like favorite Mariah Carey videos? Yuck.

Something “crazy” seems to happen to many of us when we leave school and enter the working World. Suddenly our time is much more limited and our budget suddenly much less limited. At that point, time is a more of a limited commodity in which case MySpace is far more expensive than an effective dating site! Not only that but there seems to be a bit of a social taboo about being on a site like MySpace if you’re over 35. People will probably think you’re a pedophile if you do. J

If I had to guess where we’re going in this industry, I would anticipate a bi-modal split in the industry moving forward. The traditional meat market site (for which there are a ton of low-cost PHP scripts out there) will likely consolidate with the social networking World. I can imagine Match.com style features in a friendster.com site quite easily and thus those standard websites will have nothing left to offer. These sites will begin to monetize primarily via advertising and affiliate marketing models. PlentyOfFish is an excellent example of what can be done here and frankly where things are probably going in this mode.

On the opposite side of the bi-modal split however will be those that have a true value-add that justifies a subscription premium. Eharmony with its profession of marriage and Jdate essentially with the same… are very different and will tend to attract that no-nonsense +35 demo, for which money is worth less than time. These sites offer a more indivualized *service* and that’s what they’re using to monetize their communities.

So perhaps the same business principal that has always existed, applies here: those who can, will pay for convenience. It’s the cable versus network television debate all over again. J

So perhaps what is key for all of us now is to decide which side of this bi-modal split we’re on and seek to optimize accordingly. Anyone who fails to clearly identify the needs and prerogatives of their key demo will fail to hold their attention, as the industry evolves. I think AmericanSingles.com is a painful though perfect example of this.

And by the way – I just love what Markus has done with PlentyOfFish.com. It took me a couple of weeks to really understand that he’s more of a super-affiliate than a heavy-hitting dating site. He primes those people and give them just enough to get them ready for the upsale. He doesn’t want a site like that to look too nice or be too good, or you won’t be able to upsell them. I would have never thought of this model but now that I see it, I have to say its just brilliant. Kudos!

14. Markus on June 15, 2006 2:03 PM writes...

"Well my fiends don't..."

That doesn't change the fact that 40% of myspace user over the age of 35. That translates to 6 million people using myspace on a dailly basis in the USA over the age of 35.

www.netimperative.com/2006/05/24/Bebo/view

Myspace is killing the paid dating industry, and it is absorbing the free dating sites. Pure free dating sites can not compete because of the 30% monthly turn over. Myspace once they fix their technical issues will start rolling out better searching features to make their dating component better.

15. Neal on June 15, 2006 2:37 PM writes...

> "That doesn't change the fact that 40% of myspace user over the age of 35"

...I don't buy it. Every stat I've seen up to now has 80% of the userbase between 16-24. Its an extremely skewed userbase. Moverover just doesn't jive with the idea that many ppl over 35 are using it. Hell, maybe 40% have visited it to see what the hype is, but I can't imagine further involvement on the part of the 40%.

(btw - the url you provided won't open)

> "Myspace is killing the paid dating industry, and it is absorbing the free dating sites"

...Does this mean you're planning your exit strategy? :p

16. relaxedguy on June 15, 2006 4:06 PM writes...

I don't buy that 40% over 35 number in the least. Spend any amount of time on the site and you'll see thats way too high. We've known for at least a year that Myspace was going to come in and absorb the disenfranchised casual daters from the second tier paid dating sites. There may well be a ping-pong effect where the entire casual dating market needs to reposition itself to cater to people who migrated to Myspace, only to find out they didn't care for the service.

Online introduction services like Match, Yahoo and eHarmony have sown up the market for the time being.

People will pay $50 a month for 5 reasonably interesting dates, without even thinking about it. It's all in how the service is marketed.

I agree with Neal, POF is a tremendous affiliate marketing site, nobody does so-so better than Markus.