This really should be subtitled "How To Build a Dating Site Part IV."
I will treat dating sites with respect when they do the same for their members. I try hard to say nice things about the industry, but it's difficult, and I am generally a positive person.
Dating sites think singles are sheep with credit cards tattooed on their foreheads. I look forward to the day when dating and social networking sites begin to respect their members and cater to their deeper, more evolved needs.
I have belonged to 50+ dating sites and have read over 3,000 profiles for research projects. Right now I don't belong to any dating sites, a protest against the current state of the online dating experience which gets me thinking about other things for a while.
Why is it that the sites that make the most money selling banner ads and buying inventory on social networking sites are the sites most likely not to give a crap about their members?
I'm constantly blown away by all the money dating sites are leaving on the table. Millions of people waiting at your doorstep, yet the door remains closed.
Mainstream dating sites make all the money, while more and more people are meeting on local or niche sites. The problem is, I want to belong to both, without paying multiple times.
I will pay a hell of a lot more than $20 to meet my future wife. The problem is, there is not one single site or service in the US that I would, or could, give my money to that caters to my demographic and that I have a reasonably high level of confidence in. Totally depressing. Where is the $500 hands-on service?
Where is my 7-day pass to a network of dating sites? I want to check out Yahoo, several Spark Networks properties and a few others, free and paid. Let me create a single profile that works across all of them.
Event-based dating sites are taking off, this is good to see. I made three event dates this week, that's huge compared to the usual hunt and pick on most dating sites.
Mspace is hurting the online dating industry, for now, but only a portion of it, young 20-somethings that will never make it to paying dating sites because the value proposition is so off for them. Nobody can be cool on a dating site. Who the heck wants to be a voyeur, paid or otherwise, on a dating site when we have Girls Gone Wild on Myspace?
Blogging gets boring from time to time, it's difficult to stay charged up all the time about the next new dating site. Look at Onlinepersonalswatch, Mark works in the diet industry now, scans news feeds and writes about YouTube. It's hard to stay focused when most industry news is a snooze. Social networking stole online dating's thunder, from a media and revenue standpoint. Go ahead, start another blog about social networking. When do you have time to get any work done?
PlentyOfFish is a great media story, although I often wonder how long Markus will rule the free dating world. I'm dying to check his server logs, same goes for Mate1.
Dating sites need to grow a pair and put programs into place to get rid of stale profiles. Six months is stale. Match, Yahoo and everyone else on down the line have been misleading consumers for years. Clean up your act and your database. Less profiles will lead to more money. Embrace the dynamic nature of the real-time web. A dating site database is not a card catalog, it should be a guided, rich multimedia experience, with a profile stream that flows like water. If you don't understand the concept, it's time to get smart. Email me learn more.
Europe is learning the lessons the US dating market learned 3 years ago. This was to be expected. Why then, as I thumb through the Amsterdam iDate conference proceedings, is everything about mobile dating? Haven't we been through this before? Sure, EU singles use their phone more, but why are 1/3 of all presentations about mobile dating? How big is the leading social network in Estonia and why was the CEO speaking? Why is it important to convert males to customers? Aren't females the minority?
Profile helpers are coming out of the woodwork. They all work off the same script, zzzzz, and they certainly don't scale well.
People don't join a dating site because of an expert. I would like to see how much more money sites make when they hire said "experts."
Where is the next generation of personality testing? How come I can't collaborate and take a test *with* someone?
The technical minutia of personality testing is lost on 100% of online daters, who tend to judge effectiveness on results, not weighted averages. How does one testing service differentiate from another when the mechanics and algorithm are not taken into consideration?
User-created video posted to free sites like YouTube will be huge. Major sites need to add video back into the mix. What they didn't do last time was provide privacy and progressive communication controls. Everyone emails the blonde with the big boobs, so give her the tools to protect and manage her suitors. Where are the scripts, the helper-apps to make creating a profile and video easier? Why do I have to pay someone to help me with that? There is a strong argument it should be part of the service offering from dating sites. Yup, there goes some of your margin, but the upside will be huge. Background checks I'm not so sure about adding into the monthly price, seems like an added-cost for the time being.
Speaking of background checks, how many women need to bilked out of their money or assaulted before dating sites start offering their services? I just heard from a women who was bilked out of six figures by a scammer on Match. And she wants to sue. I have a hard time sympathizing with people who get scammed. Being lonely certainly lowers the defenses.
Dating site executives often do not belong to multiple sites. That's crazy! That's as bad as singles not checking out the same-sex competition to see how they stack up.
What ever happened to live events? IRL went kaput pretty fast and Match Events fizzled for a reason. Time to try again.
Anonymous calling, Background checks, voice/chat providers, time to get in bed together, on your own you're not going anywhere fast. Userplane not included, they are the gold standard for integration and advertising models, although I don't feel comfortable with chat interface, but 125,000 websites do, what do I know.
If you work in the dating industry, go brainstorm something useful and cool for your site, create a new ad campaign, market to a new niche or tweak your search algorithm or find a new way to entice people to sign up for your site. Do something extraordinary that differentiates you from the competition.
If you're single, go outside and do something outside your comfort zone. Talk to a stranger that catches your eye, strike up a conversation with new people, they are often more likely to connect you with someone than your friends.
1. Andy Arnott on October 18, 2006 2:39 PM writes...
Dave you make a lot of great points here. Many of your frustrations are ones that I share. Now a dating site can't be everything to everyone, but I really hope that with my latest effort we will really make a lot of people excited to date online again. Now I don't want to tell everyone just yet about what I am doing but let me share a little here. Our site will reward more active users, and penalize less active ones (relating to your "stale" profile problem). The site will stay free, but by rewarding more active users we will let people filter out the less active "casual dater".
People have been launching sites that are "dating social networks". IE myspace clones for dating, and also the same fun of the mill crap. So your a free dating site!?!? Great! So your just like the other 1000 free online dating sites out there. Who the hell is going to use that? Why not just join myspace. The "secret sauce" in my opinion lies in creating a dating site that has freedoms like myspace, but is a dating site, and doesn't try to be a social network.
Ever try doing searches on a dating site? Why do you have to go through page load after page load. Why cant I stay on one page and just update the search. Oh wait!!! Web 2.0... the technology is there, but no one is using it. Soon it well be ;)
We are getting close :) When I said the site was going to be like nothing you have ever seen before , I wasn't kidding. Dave, as soon as the site is a little further along, I would like to invite you to be one of the first to see the real future of online dating. I hope you accept my humble invite.
Permalink to Comment2. Fernando Ardenghi![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://dating.corante.com/nav-commenters.gif)
on October 18, 2006 11:10 PM writes...
Mr. Evans, did you mean the Online Dating Industry is in a second big bubble that will explode soon?
Perhaps you could rise some Venture Capital money to launch you own online dating site!!!!!
"Where is the next generation of personality testing?"
The 16PF5 personality test is ready since 1949!!!!!!! (as a normative instrument, now actualized using Census 2000 figures) Let's use it!!!!!!
"How does one testing service differentiate from another when the mechanics and algorithm are not taken into consideration? "
I completely agree, the problem with Cybersuitors, Chemistry, WeAttract, eHarmony, True, Ulteem, Perfectmatch and others is:
They are using simple/multiple linear regressions equations with low precision.
Any user could find a more precise list of compatible persons searching by their own!
See
METHODOLOGICAL AND DATA ANALYTIC ADVANCES IN THE STUDY OF INTERPERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS == QUANTITATIVE METHODS USED TO EVALUATE ATTRIBUTES AND TO COMPARE BETWEEN PERSONS.
(If you plan to innovate in the OnLine Dating & Social Networking Industry, these papers are all a "must read")
"NOW AND THEN, THEM AND US, THIS AND THAT: STUDYING RELATIONSHIPS ACROSS TIME, PARTNER, CONTEXT, AND PERSON. "
http://lilt.ilstu.edu/personalrelationships/contentsofissues/pdf_articles/Volume%206,%20Issue%204/Gable.pdf
"TAXOMETRIC AND RELATED METHODS IN RELATIONSHIPS RESEARCH. "
http://lilt.ilstu.edu/personalrelationships/contentsofissues/pdf_articles/Volume%206,%20Issue%204/Haslam.pdf
"DIFFERENCE SCORE CORRELATIONS IN RELATIONSHIP RESEARCH: A CONCEPTUAL PRIMER."
http://lilt.ilstu.edu/personalrelationships/contentsofissues/pdf_articles/Volume%206,%20Issue%204/Griffin.pdf
"THE CORRELATIONAL ANALYSIS OF DYAD_LEVEL DATA IN THE DISTINGUISHABLE CASE. "
http://lilt.ilstu.edu/personalrelationships/contentsofissues/pdf_articles/Volume%206,%20Issue%204/Gonzalez.pdf
"PARTNER EFFECTS IN RELATIONSHIP RESEARCH: CONCEPTUAL ISSUES, ANALYTIC DIFFICULTIES, AND ILLUSTRATIONS. "
http://lilt.ilstu.edu/personalrelationships/contentsofissues/pdf_articles/Volume%206,%20Issue%204/Kenny.pdf
"METHODOLOGICAL AND DATA ANALYTIC ADVANCES IN THE STUDY OF INTERPERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS: INTRODUCTION TO THE SPECIAL ISSUE"
http://lilt.ilstu.edu/personalrelationships/contentsofissues/pdf_articles/Volume%206,%20Issue%204/Kashy.pdf
As the next generation of prospective subscribers will demand technical information, sooner, any online dating site offering a compatibility / personality matching method will have to specify:
1) The ENSEMBLE (the whole set of different valid possibilities)
2) How exactly the compatibility matching method works (without revealing proprietary information).
3) Which is the average number of "compatible real persons" for one person over the entire database? E.G.: 3 persons in a 100,000 persons database or 12 in 1,000,000. (or the 3 most compatible in 100,000 or the 12 most compatible in 1,000,000).
4) The whole precision E.G.: "Client#01, please contact Client#04, the probability of being compatible is as high as 92.55033557%, whole precision is 0.00000001%"
TIP: Dating Sites have very big databases (like 20,000,000 of different profiles!!!), so a whole precision as high as 0.00000001% is desired to avoid a big problem at many actual "Compatibility Matching" dating sites: searching by your own could be more precise than the matching algorithm.
5) if there are Scientific Papers (not books written by an expert) that substantiate the long_term mating success (Which is the weight assigned to personality traits over the whole profile?)
Kindest Regards,
Fernando Ardenghi.
Buenos Aires.
Argentina.
ardenghifer@gmail.com
http://mb.internetdatingconference.com/scientific-papers-t395.html
Permalink to Comment3. Evan Marc Katz on October 19, 2006 2:03 AM writes...
Amen, Dave.
Permalink to Comment4. Dennis Harnisch on October 19, 2006 4:54 AM writes...
Dave - You cover a lot of territory here in your subtitle, "How To Build a Dating Site Part IV."
I want to address this part of your article:
"If you work in the dating industry, go brainstorm something useful and cool for your site, create a new ad campaign, market to a new niche or tweak your search algorithm or find a new way to entice people to sign up for your site. Do something extraordinary that differentiates you from the competition."
I am in the 'midst' of attempting just that - ' a niche' - as you might call it.
Personally, I started 'searching' online for a female companion in 2001. Things have changed quite a bit since then.
I am currently writing an ebook which I hope will be useful to my 'niche' readers.
Meanwhile, I have written and put together many pages on my "dating tips" web site addressing my journey through the online dating experince.
By the end of 2003 I finally met the woman of my dreams! We married in 2004.
It was not easily accomplished to say the least. I learned so much of what to do and what not to do.
The 'niche' whom I address, of whom I was also a member, by the way, are single men who, for one reason or another, want a wife - not just a date.
This group of men are serious enough to look for a wife in a foreign country, particularly Russian speaking women from the former USSR countries.
Been there - done that! So I speak and use my experiences in this journey in my quest for a bride.
Hopefully I can help those few who might be interested in taking the same journey.
Permalink to Comment5. Dennis Harnisch on October 19, 2006 4:59 AM writes...
Dave - You cover a lot of territory here in your subtitle, "How To Build a Dating Site Part IV."
I want to address this part of your article:
"If you work in the dating industry, go brainstorm something useful and cool for your site, create a new ad campaign, market to a new niche or tweak your search algorithm or find a new way to entice people to sign up for your site. Do something extraordinary that differentiates you from the competition."
I am in the 'midst' of attempting just that - ' a niche' - as you might call it.
Personally, I started 'searching' online for a female companion in 2001. Things have changed quite a bit since then.
I am currently writing an ebook which I hope will be useful to my 'niche' readers.
Meanwhile, I have written and put together many pages on my "dating tips" web site addressing my journey through the online dating experince.
By the end of 2003 I finally met the woman of my dreams! We married in 2004.
It was not easily accomplished to say the least. I learned so much of what to do and what not to do.
The 'niche' whom I address, of whom I was also a member, by the way, are single men who, for one reason or another, want a wife - not just a date.
This group of men are serious enough to look for a wife in a foreign country, particularly Russian speaking women from the former USSR countries.
Been there - done that! So I speak and use my experiences in this journey in my quest for a bride.
Hopefully I can help those few who might be interested in taking the same journey.
Permalink to Comment6. Matt on October 20, 2006 2:59 PM writes...
Lets not forget about the seduction community. Through it, men are becoming men again. They are approaching and starting convestations with women at the bookstore, the supermarket, the post office. They realize that online dating is emasculating if it's your only stream of dating income (women).
Why should I care about trolling online for babes and sending emails when I can approach someone at the coffeehouse, get a phone number, and know exactly what I'm getting? I'll join a free site maybe.
So you're right Dave, at least about live events.
I could care less about personality tests. I know a personality test can't match for compatible baggage and mutual chemistry. Though okcupid is the genuis for making those cool.
I'm not sure what you mean by "You can't be cool on a dating site" - http://www.fastcupid.com, http://www.comsumating.com and http://www.itsjustcoffee.com all seem to handle coolness pretty well.
~Best
Permalink to CommentMatt
7. relaxedguy![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://dating.corante.com/nav-commenters.gif)
on October 20, 2006 3:24 PM writes...
We're definitely not in a second bubble. In fact, there wasn't a first one. That was simply massive growth. Interesting about personality tests, either people love them or they hate them, not many are ambivalent.
Permalink to Comment8. sb0373 on October 21, 2006 2:24 AM writes...
Hello Dave,
thank you for these very good comments. I think these are not just "interesting reading" but also a good guide on how to improve the sites!
Thanks a lot for that,
Stefan
Permalink to Comment9. Fernando Ardenghi![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://dating.corante.com/nav-commenters.gif)
on October 21, 2006 5:44 PM writes...
"We're definitely not in a second bubble. In fact, there wasn't a first one."
And what really had happened to:
E-Dating Bubble Springs a Leak?
http://dating.corante.com/archives/2004/12/11/edating_bubble_springs_a_leak.php
SITRAS?
http://dating.corante.com/archives/2004/12/08/newsflash_sitracon_ii_speaker_presentations.php
IADW?
IdeaOasis?
Legislation?
WeAttract?
eHarmony USD100 million received more than a year ago?
http://dating.corante.com/archives/2004/12/22/eharmonycom_attracts_nearly_110_million.php
"Are you sitting down? Pasadena-based EHarmony sold $100M preferred stock to 14 investors including Sequoia Capital and Technology Crossover Ventures. "
Lemontonic getting busy in Canada ???
http://dating.corante.com/archives/2004/12/20/lemontonic_getting_busy_in_canada.php
Meetic prepares for 2005 EU IPO
http://dating.corante.com/archives/2004/12/15/meetic_prepares_for_2005_eu_ipo.php
Podcasts with the new microphone you had bought to avoid bath noise?
http://dating.corante.com/archives/2005/12/08/singles_podcast_network_show_3.php
http://www.singlespodcastingnetwork.com/
software developments for mobile applications?
See your previous post at
http://dating.corante.com/archives/2004/12/08/newsflash_sitracon_ii_speaker_presentations.php
says "...I'm fascinated with matching technologies and I was able to catch the last few minutes of a talk by Chris Knudsen at Relate Networx....Scientific matching is a hot topics when it comes to service differentiation and it's good to see Chris as well as Steve Levine at Transparensee sharing their thoughts on this timely topic. "
Kindest Regards,
Fernando Ardenghi.
Buenos Aires.
Argentina.
ardenghifer@gmail.com
Permalink to Comment10. relaxedguy![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://dating.corante.com/nav-commenters.gif)
on October 21, 2006 6:04 PM writes...
Fernando, the e-dating bubble title is from the New York Times, I didn't say that. The lack of traction of various legislation and the reduction of dating industry organizations doesn't point to a bubble, the industry has decided that one dating org is enough. WeAttract is a personality testing and profiling company, not sure what the relevance to there being a bubble?
Mobile is coming, it's just too early for the US.
A bubble is more about economics, eHarmony raising $100M for marketing and other purposes was a good sign it and the industry is maturing. It's not like they squandered away the money, at least from what we know about the company today.
Permalink to Comment11. Esther Kustanowitz on October 23, 2006 11:25 AM writes...
Right on, Dave. As far as the issue of "having a bubble" that could burst, it's just the media's way of loving a backlash. Every time anything becomes a trend, the media reports that there's an imminent bust, or a bubble about to burst, or a groundswell of subversive energy designed to take down the trend. Like I said, media loves a backlash. And especially with something as oft-hated as the process of online dating, the concept of the industry being taken down a peg is something that many single people (at least JDate subscribers) would revel in gleefully.
As to Matt's comment about "men becoming men again" and actually approaching women in real life...where is the mythical Atlantis where that is happening? I wish you were right, but I've found (and it's not just me, but those in my group of women friends) that most women don't get approached, and that many of the approachers are actually socially hopeless. Obviously, it's not true everywhere. But I hope Matt's right about the trend...
Permalink to Comment12. VJ on October 24, 2006 12:08 AM writes...
Umm I got here via a link from Esther. And I'm all hot and bothered about Fernando's "TAXOMETRIC AND RELATED METHODS IN RELATIONSHIPS RESEARCH" and "THE CORRELATIONAL ANALYSIS OF DYAD_LEVEL DATA IN THE DISTINGUISHABLE CASE". Really man, I'm hot under the collar after that. Worse all the numbers makes the wife hot too. Strange that! Reminds me of my trysts with NumTax way back when in Grad School. Fine stuff too, but it's in it's infancy no doubt.
But what folks need is not only more real Social Science, but some historical perspective too. We imagine we must be measuring something important 'cause that's what we've got. But Outcomes research? Not there yet. And what is all this without real time Outcomes research? A lot of gas molecules coming together, being attracted in some cases, repelled in others. What's the bottom line? How 'effective' at 'discrimination' are any of these sites, and how successful are they at this discrimination over a given set of time parameters? Finally what's the percentage who are in the {presumed} desired state of a LTR/Marriage after say, 6mo-1 year? Is this greater than we might expect from simply random chance encounters? Will someone ever dare attempt such a test? Being merely compatible is surely no guarantee of much, and oh BTW, your 'paper test' IQ is mostly irrelevant here too. And I hate to think what a series of personality tests might show from among the long married. I've seen some of the nice 'successful aging' ones, but how about the 'barely tolerate each other' remainder?
Yes, there's certainly plenty of cash flow being generated here and elsewhere, and I'm sorry that you (and other more worthies) are missing it all. It's quite a bonanza made off of the thwarted but still very present desires of millions. It's the equivalent of selling sliced bread to the masses, everyone wants someone to love. It's worse than selling life insurance to healthy 20 Yo's. They'll not likely need it, and they're mostly indifferent to it's cost and bother once they buy into it.
But finally folks come around to their greatest assets in the game of chance, personal encounters. This is the best test of compatibility, not a few spare paragraphs trying to sum up our very complex lives, and/or some subsequent hot and heavy email/phone/text exchanges. Being there. There's really no substitute. It surely does not help that yes, many of the guys who are looking for a mate seem socially inept. This is a fairly common trait. Worse it is bound to be a self reinforcing trend, as all the socailly adept guys are constantly being removed from the dating pool.
Permalink to CommentMe, I think you'd have better odds with the much older 'social improvement' ethos. Get active in your community, learn to dance, play an instrument, or be a knowledgeable conversationalist. Approach more people, and be more approachable. Even better, get to know yourself better, what you really want from a relationship and why. That's a really good start and can help clear out the clutter fairly effectively. And saying 'Yes' more often would help. Especially for all those worthy but socially inept & shy guys who seem to be still out there. As always. Cheers, 'VJ' [No that's not my real email].
13. Jean Smith on November 4, 2006 12:33 PM writes...
Hi there ! This is meant as a fairly light-hearted post... not really flogging my wares... my last CD -- Mecca Normal's 13th in over 20 years -- is basically about online dating... if you're interested in the subject and how it inspired songs.
www.myspace.com/meccanormal
I've posted "Attraction is Ephemeral" about an short romance generated from Lavalife... where, in the opening verse I sing : "Wondering how much recent deception informs my reaction." I made a video using self-portrait photos from my Lavalife profile. Also up : "I'm Not Into Being the Woman You're With While You're Looking for the Woman You Want" -- which I said to a guy after I saw back on Lavalife for hours after we'd had sex. A chronic issue for online dating sites -- why is the person I started something with still looking? And the song : "I'll Call You" -- written from the point of view of a man if he was actually telling the truth about what he wanted -- not exclusive to the online scene.
I'll Call You
I want cold and impersonal sex
during which I'll be pretending I'm with someone else
I only care about my satisfaction
I will jerk you around
to get as much for myself as I can
If you object -- I'll be on my way
If you dare to communicate with me after I've let you know
where you stand
I will belittle you
I will disrespect you with comments
that I call 'joking' -- if you don't get it
you need to lighten up
You will play by my rules
and I'm not into telling you what my rules are
I'll call you
I'll call you
I'm very highly evolved
I'm very attractive
I have a lot of options that I am keeping open
so don't expect me to treat you as if
you're someone special
-- you're not
I'll call you
I'll call you
I'll let you know when it's your turn again
until then, let's be friends
I'll call you
I'll call you
Permalink to Comment14. dating, relationship, love. Tips and advise on November 19, 2006 10:03 AM writes...
thanks david for all
Permalink to Comment